If you could bring a defunct store back.....

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klkla
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by klkla »

pseudo3d wrote:
klkla wrote:I think there have been discussions about it on here before but Sage's was a chain that operated in San Bernardino/Riverside Counties in Southern California and was way ahead of it's time in offering one stop shopping. They had great customer service and a great restaurant/bakery. I actually didn't mind being dragged to the grocery store with my mom as a kid as long as we were going to Sage's.
Was that the discount department store operated by Walgreens, or is it a different store?
No. It was a completely different store. I think they only had 6 or 7 stores at their peak but they were a true pioneer of the one-stop shopping concept.
Ohio Man
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by Ohio Man »

I would bring Liberal back. They had a rather significant presence here in Cincinnati, including a large store near the University of Cincinnati. I'd like to bring them back for a couple of reasons: (1) I never set foot in one, unless it was when I was too young to remember, and (2) Their name--it would drive a lot of the conservative folks in the area crazy. They would write letters to the local paper, organize boycotts, and just be enraged in general. It would be extremely entertaining.
pseudo3d
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by pseudo3d »

Definitely Schwegmann, as that is not only not later absorbed properly by bigger supermarkets but was also unique in its own right, operating huge 70k+ square feet stores years before everyone else did. In my "Alternate History", they focused on adding a complete line-up of general merchandise in the early 1990s before buying up the Real Superstore from Loblaws, divesting its smaller stores (That Stanley! and Canal Villere) to focus on bigger stores. They greatly benefited from Super Kmart's pullout in 2002, reopening them as stores under that name, and purchasing Auchan in Houston. Today, Schwegmann operates over 150 "superstores" from Arizona to Georgia.
retailfanmitchell019
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

submariner wrote: 12 Jul 2010 03:35 Just a little late-night musing...

Alternate history:

In 1986, Lucky Stores spun off it's GEMCO division. As a new company, GEMCO struggled to find its place in the late 80's discount arena. After closing all but their California stores in 1989, GEMCO went on a massive rebranding campaign, focusing on its strength as California's largest hypermarket chain. Shifting their focus to higher-quality items at reasonable prices, GEMCO became the primary competitor to Target stores. By 1995, GEMCO and Target were in an all-out retail war. GEMCO's grocery offerings soon rivaled that of Vons' Pavilions chain and GEMCO soon became the 'trendy' place to shop in California. In 2000, Kmart completely pulled out of California after years of dismal sales and being shuffled to fourth place with the mass intrusion of Wal-Mart stores. 2005 saw a growth spurt not unlike the Kohl's chain as GEMCO ventured out of California again into Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington.

Today, GEMCO operates over 200 stores in 10 states from the west coast all the way to Illinois. Filling a gap above Walmart's supercenters and the midwest stalwart, Meijer; GEMCO continues to operate clean, bright stores that are well stocked with designer label items at easy-to-handle prices. GEMCO's food selection continues to rival higher quality grocery stores with service departments tailored to the neighborhood where they are located. Citing the successes of Meijer, Walmart Supercenters, and GEMCO, Target never opened a hypermarket of their own; however they continue with the rollout of smaller "Markets" in most of their stores. Kmart Supercenters never evolved west of the Mississippi. After an unsuccessful invasion attempt, Walmart currently operates only a small handful of mainline stores in central California, and has no plans of operating any supercenters in the state.

GEMCO plans to expand to the east coast by 2015. However, GEMCO does not plan to enter the gulf coast region, citing Walmart's strong presence.

gemco.png
Alternate, fictional history for National Tea:

In 1976, Canadian grocer Loblaw spun off its National Tea division and US Loblaws stores to its management. National Tea still was partially owned by George Weston Limited. National then sold off its weakest stores, such as Loblaws divisions in Los Angeles, Ohio and Pennsylvania, and National stores in Davenport.
National reinvented itself in 1980 by focusing on its reputation for strong food quality with splashy ad campaigns targeting the "yuppie" demographic. National was then known as a "classy" place to buy groceries. National then reported record sales numbers. National went on an acquisition spree, acquiring Applebaum's in Minneapolis, and A&P's stores in St. Louis.
In 1984, National made its biggest acquisition yet: rival Jewel Companies in Chicago. As National and Jewel were the top 2 grocers in Chicago, the FTC required National to sell its Chicago stores to Kroger, which returned Kroger to that market after a 14 year absence. In the deal, National not only got Jewel, but Star Market in Boston, Buttrey Foods in the northern Rockies/upper Midwest, and two drug store chains: Sav-on Drugs and Osco Drug. National then opened combo stores similar to Loblaws' "superstores" in Canada, combining a National banner with a drug store. These stores were forerunners to today's supercenters.
In 1989, National made another big acquisition: Lucky Stores, a California supermarket chain known for low prices and decent quality.
in 1994, National made another big acquisition, this one being Albertsons, a Western supermarket chain. Five years later, National acquired Acme Stores, a Northeast chain.
In 2009, National underwent a restructuring, selling off the unprofitable Albertsons Texas (except for El Paso) and Florida divisions, which were being hammered by Walmart Supercenters.

Today, National operates 1800 supermarkets across the US, from Maine to San Diego. It is owned by George Weston Foods in an alliance with Loblaw Companies (similar to Walgreens Boots Alliance). Like its sister chain Loblaw, it operates clean, modern supermarkets with strong quality foods at competitive prices, and carries the President's Choice brand.

Banners owned by National Tea:
National: Minnesota, Wisconsin, downstate IL, Missouri, North Dakota, eastern South Dakota, Iowa
Jewel: Chicagoland, NW Indiana, western Michigan
Miller's: Colorado, western Nebraska, eastern Wyoming, western South Dakota
Standard: Indiana (except NW)
Lucky: California, southern Nevada
Buttrey: Montana
Albertsons: Oregon, Washington, Idaho, northern Nevada, Utah, western Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, eastern Nebraska, Kansas
Acme: Mid-Atlantic
Star Market: New England
pseudo3d
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by pseudo3d »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: 22 Dec 2022 23:29
submariner wrote: 12 Jul 2010 03:35 Just a little late-night musing...

Alternate history:

In 1986, Lucky Stores spun off it's GEMCO division. As a new company, GEMCO struggled to find its place in the late 80's discount arena. After closing all but their California stores in 1989, GEMCO went on a massive rebranding campaign, focusing on its strength as California's largest hypermarket chain. Shifting their focus to higher-quality items at reasonable prices, GEMCO became the primary competitor to Target stores. By 1995, GEMCO and Target were in an all-out retail war. GEMCO's grocery offerings soon rivaled that of Vons' Pavilions chain and GEMCO soon became the 'trendy' place to shop in California. In 2000, Kmart completely pulled out of California after years of dismal sales and being shuffled to fourth place with the mass intrusion of Wal-Mart stores. 2005 saw a growth spurt not unlike the Kohl's chain as GEMCO ventured out of California again into Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington.

Today, GEMCO operates over 200 stores in 10 states from the west coast all the way to Illinois. Filling a gap above Walmart's supercenters and the midwest stalwart, Meijer; GEMCO continues to operate clean, bright stores that are well stocked with designer label items at easy-to-handle prices. GEMCO's food selection continues to rival higher quality grocery stores with service departments tailored to the neighborhood where they are located. Citing the successes of Meijer, Walmart Supercenters, and GEMCO, Target never opened a hypermarket of their own; however they continue with the rollout of smaller "Markets" in most of their stores. Kmart Supercenters never evolved west of the Mississippi. After an unsuccessful invasion attempt, Walmart currently operates only a small handful of mainline stores in central California, and has no plans of operating any supercenters in the state.

GEMCO plans to expand to the east coast by 2015. However, GEMCO does not plan to enter the gulf coast region, citing Walmart's strong presence.

gemco.png
Alternate, fictional history for National Tea:

In 1976, Canadian grocer Loblaw spun off its National Tea division and US Loblaws stores to its management. National Tea still was partially owned by George Weston Limited. National then sold off its weakest stores, such as Loblaws divisions in Los Angeles, Ohio and Pennsylvania, and National stores in Davenport.
National reinvented itself in 1980 by focusing on its reputation for strong food quality with splashy ad campaigns targeting the "yuppie" demographic. National was then known as a "classy" place to buy groceries. National then reported record sales numbers. National went on an acquisition spree, acquiring Applebaum's in Minneapolis, and A&P's stores in St. Louis.
In 1984, National made its biggest acquisition yet: rival Jewel Companies in Chicago. As National and Jewel were the top 2 grocers in Chicago, the FTC required National to sell its Chicago stores to Kroger, which returned Kroger to that market after a 14 year absence. In the deal, National not only got Jewel, but Star Market in Boston, Buttrey Foods in the northern Rockies/upper Midwest, and two drug store chains: Sav-on Drugs and Osco Drug. National then opened combo stores similar to Loblaws' "superstores" in Canada, combining a National banner with a drug store. These stores were forerunners to today's supercenters.
In 1989, National made another big acquisition: Lucky Stores, a California supermarket chain known for low prices and decent quality.
in 1994, National made another big acquisition, this one being Albertsons, a Western supermarket chain. Five years later, National acquired Acme Stores, a Northeast chain.
In 2009, National underwent a restructuring, selling off the unprofitable Albertsons Texas (except for El Paso) and Florida divisions, which were being hammered by Walmart Supercenters.

Today, National operates 1800 supermarkets across the US, from Maine to San Diego. It is owned by George Weston Foods in an alliance with Loblaw Companies (similar to Walgreens Boots Alliance). Like its sister chain Loblaw, it operates clean, modern supermarkets with strong quality foods at competitive prices, and carries the President's Choice brand.

Banners owned by National Tea:
National: Minnesota, Wisconsin, downstate IL, Missouri, North Dakota, eastern South Dakota, Iowa
Jewel: Chicagoland, NW Indiana, western Michigan
Miller's: Colorado, western Nebraska, eastern Wyoming, western South Dakota
Standard: Indiana (except NW)
Lucky: California, southern Nevada
Buttrey: Montana
Albertsons: Oregon, Washington, Idaho, northern Nevada, Utah, western Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, eastern Nebraska, Kansas
Acme: Mid-Atlantic
Star Market: New England
Not a good look for National Tea if they completely crumple up when faced against competition like H-E-B or Publix. Even the real Albertsons still turned/turns a profit there.
wnetmacman
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by wnetmacman »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: 22 Dec 2022 23:29
Alternate, fictional history for National Tea:

In 1976, Canadian grocer Loblaw spun off its National Tea division and US Loblaws stores to its management. National Tea still was partially owned by George Weston Limited. National then sold off its weakest stores, such as Loblaws divisions in Los Angeles, Ohio and Pennsylvania, and National stores in Davenport.
National reinvented itself in 1980 by focusing on its reputation for strong food quality with splashy ad campaigns targeting the "yuppie" demographic. National was then known as a "classy" place to buy groceries. National then reported record sales numbers. National went on an acquisition spree, acquiring Applebaum's in Minneapolis, and A&P's stores in St. Louis.
In 1984, National made its biggest acquisition yet: rival Jewel Companies in Chicago. As National and Jewel were the top 2 grocers in Chicago, the FTC required National to sell its Chicago stores to Kroger, which returned Kroger to that market after a 14 year absence. In the deal, National not only got Jewel, but Star Market in Boston, Buttrey Foods in the northern Rockies/upper Midwest, and two drug store chains: Sav-on Drugs and Osco Drug. National then opened combo stores similar to Loblaws' "superstores" in Canada, combining a National banner with a drug store. These stores were forerunners to today's supercenters.
In 1989, National made another big acquisition: Lucky Stores, a California supermarket chain known for low prices and decent quality.
in 1994, National made another big acquisition, this one being Albertsons, a Western supermarket chain. Five years later, National acquired Acme Stores, a Northeast chain.
In 2009, National underwent a restructuring, selling off the unprofitable Albertsons Texas (except for El Paso) and Florida divisions, which were being hammered by Walmart Supercenters.

Today, National operates 1800 supermarkets across the US, from Maine to San Diego. It is owned by George Weston Foods in an alliance with Loblaw Companies (similar to Walgreens Boots Alliance). Like its sister chain Loblaw, it operates clean, modern supermarkets with strong quality foods at competitive prices, and carries the President's Choice brand.

Banners owned by National Tea:
National: Minnesota, Wisconsin, downstate IL, Missouri, North Dakota, eastern South Dakota, Iowa
Jewel: Chicagoland, NW Indiana, western Michigan
Miller's: Colorado, western Nebraska, eastern Wyoming, western South Dakota
Standard: Indiana (except NW)
Lucky: California, southern Nevada
Buttrey: Montana
Albertsons: Oregon, Washington, Idaho, northern Nevada, Utah, western Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, eastern Nebraska, Kansas
Acme: Mid-Atlantic
Star Market: New England
So what happened to the New Orleans division?
Scott Greer
wnetmacman
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by wnetmacman »

So if we're gonna make fanfic here.....

Kmart history (if they had taken Walmart seriously from the beginning)

By 1978, the company, renamed Kmart Corporation, became increasingly aware of regional competitors, like Wal-Mart Stores in Arkansas, Howard Brothers of Louisiana, and many others who were trying to capitalize on Kmart's weaknesses. Improvements were made in distribution and administration that made major changes to how the company operates.

First, Merchandising was to no longer be handled by offices in Troy, as folks in Michigan no more know what Florida needs in a parka than folks in Texas know what to do with a Snow Shovel. Regional merchandisers were set up around the country to allow stores in a particular region to stock that region's preferred stock. Data showed that this move alone shot sales up 20% across the board.

Second, management at the local level was given broad authority to work with their local governments to make changes to the store design and size to fit zoning and community standards. No longer was a cookie-cutter box placed just to expand.

Third, instead of ignoring the new competition, Kmart acquired several regional and smaller competitors. Wal-Mart Stores, a 250-store chain, all within a day's drive of Bentonville, Arkansas, was acquired with a focus on two of that chain's strengths - customer service and a willingness to go into smaller communities that Kmart typically bypassed. By placing these things throughout the company, it aided in expansion nationwide.

Finally, we began to put you, the customer first. By listening, we can get what you need.

By 1990, growth was strong enough that two forms of expansion proved fruitful - International, and the Super Kmart Center.

Internationally, Kmart now operates in 35 foreign companies either as a wholly owned subsidiary or a licensed division. All are profitable.

The Super Kmart Center program, which added a full discount supermarket, had also proven highly profitable. By using the Warehouse grocery concept, costs to both the company and customer are kept at a minimum, while offering as much variety as possible. The company has over 3000 Super Kmart Centers, with plans to add at least 1000 more.

Our online programs, KmartShop.com and Bluelight.com, are two of the largest web platforms on earth, selling more than anyone else.

Today, we have over 5000 stores in the US and another 8000 internationally, and as long as we keep listening to you, the customer, nothing can stop us. This has made us the world's largest retailer for 30 years, bypassing Sears in 1991.


(Let me know when you stop laughing)
Scott Greer
rich
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by rich »

Having worked for one of K-Mart's better regional competition, I can tell you that you're missing something big: K-Mart's inexpensive, but often poor quality house brand merchandise, which was a long-term liability. It helped them live through the stagflation era of the 70s and 80s and it was marginally better than the even worse quality stuff at its low-end competitors like King's, Spartan-Atlantic, etc., so they outlived many of them. But by the mid-80s it was a liability and K-Mart knew it. It took them a long time to find away beyond the kind of stuff that even seemed cheap and junky at Kresge's.

Their other problem was the general neglect of their stores---the got rid of the depressing Kresge colors and brightened-up things during the 80s, but never did anything to the stores they built in the 60s and 70s. The neglect was not a selling point.

They did begin to adjust to different footprints fairly early-on, after buying many of the Grant stores. After that, they bought other castoffs and adapted to them. . Shortly after buying old Grant stores, they even had two-story locations by the late 70s, like the Sears store they took over outside of Cleveland. Unfortunately, they were buying castoffs in the 80s when they should have been fixing up what they had.
wnetmacman
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by wnetmacman »

rich wrote: 01 Feb 2023 20:26 Having worked for one of K-Mart's better regional competition, I can tell you that you're missing something big: K-Mart's inexpensive, but often poor quality house brand merchandise, which was a long-term liability. It helped them live through the stagflation era of the 70s and 80s and it was marginally better than the even worse quality stuff at its low-end competitors like King's, Spartan-Atlantic, etc., so they outlived many of them. But by the mid-80s it was a liability and K-Mart knew it. It took them a long time to find away beyond the kind of stuff that even seemed cheap and junky at Kresge's.

Their other problem was the general neglect of their stores---the got rid of the depressing Kresge colors and brightened-up things during the 80s, but never did anything to the stores they built in the 60s and 70s. The neglect was not a selling point.

They did begin to adjust to different footprints fairly early-on, after buying many of the Grant stores. After that, they bought other castoffs and adapted to them. . Shortly after buying old Grant stores, they even had two-story locations by the late 70s, like the Sears store they took over outside of Cleveland. Unfortunately, they were buying castoffs in the 80s when they should have been fixing up what they had.
The biggest problem with Kmart was that once they really took off, nobody else existed to them until around the time that Walmart passed them in sales. Because of that, they could get away with poor house brands and dumpy little stores that all looked exactly alike. I remember the first time I went in a Kmart that had been Grants; it was the most confusing store I ever entered. Its auto center had long been leased to some local guy and the departments were everywhere. It was like they came in and just put the departments down where a pallet landed.

The second problem was that when they did realize others were nipping at their heels, they could ill afford to go off script, so to speak. They couldn't find a good plan to stick to that they could afford, thus the 90s and beyond. Big Kmart was a Big Mistake, as was purchasing all the Venture stores - if someone with nicer stores couldn't make them work, what thinking caused them to think they could?
Scott Greer
pseudo3d
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote: 14 Feb 2023 15:29
rich wrote: 01 Feb 2023 20:26 Having worked for one of K-Mart's better regional competition, I can tell you that you're missing something big: K-Mart's inexpensive, but often poor quality house brand merchandise, which was a long-term liability. It helped them live through the stagflation era of the 70s and 80s and it was marginally better than the even worse quality stuff at its low-end competitors like King's, Spartan-Atlantic, etc., so they outlived many of them. But by the mid-80s it was a liability and K-Mart knew it. It took them a long time to find away beyond the kind of stuff that even seemed cheap and junky at Kresge's.

Their other problem was the general neglect of their stores---the got rid of the depressing Kresge colors and brightened-up things during the 80s, but never did anything to the stores they built in the 60s and 70s. The neglect was not a selling point.

They did begin to adjust to different footprints fairly early-on, after buying many of the Grant stores. After that, they bought other castoffs and adapted to them. . Shortly after buying old Grant stores, they even had two-story locations by the late 70s, like the Sears store they took over outside of Cleveland. Unfortunately, they were buying castoffs in the 80s when they should have been fixing up what they had.
The biggest problem with Kmart was that once they really took off, nobody else existed to them until around the time that Walmart passed them in sales. Because of that, they could get away with poor house brands and dumpy little stores that all looked exactly alike. I remember the first time I went in a Kmart that had been Grants; it was the most confusing store I ever entered. Its auto center had long been leased to some local guy and the departments were everywhere. It was like they came in and just put the departments down where a pallet landed.

The second problem was that when they did realize others were nipping at their heels, they could ill afford to go off script, so to speak. They couldn't find a good plan to stick to that they could afford, thus the 90s and beyond. Big Kmart was a Big Mistake, as was purchasing all the Venture stores - if someone with nicer stores couldn't make them work, what thinking caused them to think they could?
Wait, so they all looked similar or all looked different? Those two paragraphs kind of contradict each other.

I know that they often had leased departments, with Meldisco (Melville Discount stores) operating in Kmart until 2008. Probably a lot more in the early days...
Super S
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by Super S »

wnetmacman wrote: 14 Feb 2023 15:29

The biggest problem with Kmart was that once they really took off, nobody else existed to them until around the time that Walmart passed them in sales. Because of that, they could get away with poor house brands and dumpy little stores that all looked exactly alike. I remember the first time I went in a Kmart that had been Grants; it was the most confusing store I ever entered. Its auto center had long been leased to some local guy and the departments were everywhere. It was like they came in and just put the departments down where a pallet landed.

The second problem was that when they did realize others were nipping at their heels, they could ill afford to go off script, so to speak. They couldn't find a good plan to stick to that they could afford, thus the 90s and beyond. Big Kmart was a Big Mistake, as was purchasing all the Venture stores - if someone with nicer stores couldn't make them work, what thinking caused them to think they could?
KMart for years didn't really have a true national competitor, but there were many regional chains that were the same basic concept. Some of these include Walmart and Target (which grew and evolved into the national competitors) Fred Meyer and Meijer (still around as regionals) as well as many long gone regional chains. Shopko, Mr. Wiggs, Heck's, Rink's, Hills, Grand Central, Zayre, Alco, Venture, and others. Some chains were able to offer better quality merchandise but couldn't always compete on price.
Steve Landry
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by Steve Landry »

Don't forget J.M. Fields (over 85 stores)

😉
Last edited by Steve Landry on 18 Feb 2023 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
The Food Fair Empire
BillyGr
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by BillyGr »

Steve Landry wrote: 17 Feb 2023 17:53 Don't forget J.M. Fields

😉
OR Ames, Bradlees, Caldor, Ann & Hope, Kings, Barkers, Jamesway and probably a few more.

Even something like the original Roses (which still exists but may not be quite what it was years ago).

Only makes sense that it is harder for any one person to make a complete list of these chains, as everyone will remember the ones that were in their area, but may not know of others that existed in different parts of the US.
Super S
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by Super S »

BillyGr wrote: 18 Feb 2023 14:16
Steve Landry wrote: 17 Feb 2023 17:53 Don't forget J.M. Fields

😉
OR Ames, Bradlees, Caldor, Ann & Hope, Kings, Barkers, Jamesway and probably a few more.

Even something like the original Roses (which still exists but may not be quite what it was years ago).

Only makes sense that it is harder for any one person to make a complete list of these chains, as everyone will remember the ones that were in their area, but may not know of others that existed in different parts of the US.
I basically listed the ones that I remembered visiting as I traveled around the country growing up. I agree that it's hard to make a complete list.
retailfanmitchell019
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Re: If you could bring a defunct store back.....

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

wnetmacman wrote: 31 Jan 2023 11:59 So what happened to the New Orleans division?
That would've been sold to Kroger.
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