Red & White stores

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TXRick
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Red & White stores

Post by TXRick » 05 Jul 2019 14:31

I am completing research on businesses in my town. I live in Tomball, Texas on the north side of Houston. I am told there once was a Red & White store in Tomball. Can anyone help me with any details on that store?

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Andrew T.
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Re: Red & White stores

Post by Andrew T. » 05 Jul 2019 20:03

I know almost nothing about Tomball, but I do know some research tips that may help you find the information you're looking for.

First off, about Red & White: R&W was a franchise chain, and its name was typically subservient to the name of the individual owner (i.e., "Bill's Red & White"). Many of the stores that did business under the Red & White name did so only briefly in the 1960s and 1970s after longer tenures as completely independent grocery stores, and later switched to other franchises or went out of business entirely.

To confirm the names and locations of historical businesses, I'd ordinarily suggest visiting the public library and looking up the name or address in one of the hardbound city directories from decades ago. Tomball is so small, however, that I doubt a city directory was ever published. Phone books are less reliable (and sometimes leave out addresses altogether), but sometimes work as a fallback.

Another thought: In small towns that never had city directories published, you can sometimes get a sense of what stores and businesses historically existed by looking for sponsor ads in old high school yearbooks. (This is how I know that a Mick-or-Mack supermarket existed in Athens, WV in the 1940s.)

The Chaparral Genealogical Society might have some resources that could help.
"The pale pastels which have been featured in most food stores during the past 20 years are no longer in tune with the mood of the 1970s."
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pseudo3d
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Re: Red & White stores

Post by pseudo3d » 03 Sep 2019 00:12

TXRick wrote:
05 Jul 2019 14:31
I am completing research on businesses in my town. I live in Tomball, Texas on the north side of Houston. I am told there once was a Red & White store in Tomball. Can anyone help me with any details on that store?
The Rosenberg public library (George Memorial Library) tends to have historic directories of the communities around Houston. Call first.

NoVa Grocery Buff
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Re: Red & White stores

Post by NoVa Grocery Buff » 02 Jan 2020 16:18

I discovered another Red & White that is still open in Virginia while researching another topic.

202 Court St, Lawrenceville, VA 23868
Streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/WunYbGCh7FWGipNs6
The street to the side of the building has newer Streetview imagery (2008 vs 2014).

The town and VA DHR have a report that first shows it registered in 1957
https://www.dhr.virginia.gov/pdf_files/ ... report.pdf

Another source says it could have been built later in 1977 or just changed owners at that point
http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Lawren ... 4-848-3816


Non-Red & White Grocery note: the only other grocery store during the report by the DHR and town was a "Star Value" which seems likes a one-off grocery concept created before 1955 by the same family that founded the Peebles Department Store chain. I could not locate when it closed but the skeleton of the last known location built in 1955 is at 301 New Hick Street, Lawrenceville, VA 23868
Streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/cUE4qDADcpQ9XdjM8

" The department stores concentrated on clothing under the "Peebles" name and grocery stores
operated as 'Star Value'. The department store continued to operate at 203 North Main Street. A new Star
Value grocery was built in 1955 at 301 -5 New Hicks Street."
https://www.dhr.virginia.gov/pdf_files/ ... report.pdf

TW-Upstate NY
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Re: Red & White stores

Post by TW-Upstate NY » 02 Jan 2020 18:25

Does anyone else think that Lawrenceville store looks like a possible former A+P or is it just me? That brick front looks like it could've been added to make the store an A+P Centennial model and the front windows look like an A+P configuration of that era. Also the oval sign out front could easily have been an A+P sign at one time.

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Andrew T.
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Re: Red & White stores

Post by Andrew T. » 12 Jan 2020 12:39

Hey, the board is back!
TW-Upstate NY wrote:
02 Jan 2020 18:25
Does anyone else think that Lawrenceville store looks like a possible former A+P or is it just me? That brick front looks like it could've been added to make the store an A+P Centennial model and the front windows look like an A+P configuration of that era. Also the oval sign out front could easily have been an A+P sign at one time.
The roofline does look a little A&P-like. A&P did also occasionally use "lollipop" signs in this era, so that's that. The one caveat of the building is its footprint: It's positively tiny, measuring less than 10,000 square feet...less than I'd expect a late 1950s A&P to be, but plausible by 1940s or early 1950s small-town standards.

Unfortunately Lawrenceville like Tomball is solidly within the realm of "towns too small to ever command a city directory to be published;" though someone local might be able to piece together some history through the other types of resources upthread.

(And speaking of upthread, the OP hasn't logged in since making their original post.)
"The pale pastels which have been featured in most food stores during the past 20 years are no longer in tune with the mood of the 1970s."
Andrew Turnbull

rich
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Re: Red & White stores

Post by rich » 28 Jan 2020 17:47

Red & White has a complicated history and its difficult to know who has custody of what's left now. It was begun as a house brand for Flickinger which operated grocery stores in the Buffalo NY area and also served as a wholesaler for a wide area from its base in Buffalo. Flickinger was one of the pioneers of organizing voluntary co-ops which were groups of independent store operators in a given place which shared advertising and other resources. These used to be much bigger factor than they are now----Shop-Rite in Northeast is a major exception which outranks major chains in many of its markets. Flickinger's co-ops included Super Duper in Buffalo, Columbus Ohio & other markets., which had its own house brand in addition to Red & White.

Anyway, Red & White came to have a joint ownership under a number of investors with Flickinger still involved and moved to a base in Chicago. They organized co-ops under the Red & White name but also supplied Red & White as a house brand to other operators. They were sold (in the 70s or 80s after the death of the last Flickinger to operate the Buffalo business) to a wholesaler on the West Coast and seemed to decline after that. At some point they may have been licensing the name in exchange for carrying the goods or operated as conventional co-ops.

You may want to see if nearby towns had Red & Whites and if any transitioned to something else. Old newspapers, if they are digitized could help you with that. A likely scenario was that they supplied independents, probably smaller ones, stores in Houston and its environs and old newspaper ads would either give you info on locations if there were enough to advertise together. Old directories for Houston or or perhaps Austin or San Antonio might be able to tell you if Red & White had a local distribution center, although most likely they worked through a local wholesaler.

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