I think Kroger had them in their first superstores, so that would go back to the early '70s. But the real explosion of delis definitely didn't come until the mid to late '80s. Now... how about those dark canvas awnings over produce departments? When I think of that era, I also think of those hideous things. What was the purpose of them -- would a dark department make it easier to pass off inferior product?marshd1000 wrote:I am wondering if anyone know where the first supermarket was that had a full service in-store deli.
Supermarket Delis
Moderator: Groceteria
I was always under the impression that the awnings were an attempt to mimic the appearance of an "old-fashioned farmer's market" or produce stand more than anything else.tkaye wrote:...Now... how about those dark canvas awnings over produce departments? When I think of that era, I also think of those hideous things. What was the purpose of them -- would a dark department make it easier to pass off inferior product?
Re: upthread---Kroger was a latecomer to full service delis. Kroger stores in Northern markets like Cleveland, Chicago & Pittsburgh had been outmoded, compared with the competition for many years before they opened the superstores. Some supermarket chains had these in the 1950s. The Fisher Foods chain in Cleveland was one example of this--their larger stores from the early/mid-50s had delis. Independents in the Bi-Rite and Stop-n-Shop coops in Cleveland also had delis as far back as the 50s. I'm sure they turned up elsewhere. Outside of the Southeast, delis were a common part of new stores and remodels during the 60s. Colonial was probably the first large chain in the South to have full-service delis (late 60s), unless you count Publix and the Florida outposts of Northern chains like Food Fair.
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Steve Landry
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krogerclerk
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Outside of Florida, a supermarket deli was unheard of until the 1970's.
For much of the southeast, Kroger's rollout of the superstore format was often the first grocer with a deli-bakery and extended operating hours.
In the south, Publix operated Dutch bakeries in the 1960's and didn't really push delis until the 1970's. Food Fair/Pantry Pride and Grand Union had delis in South Florida and those Publix locations close to those were the early deli offerings. Winn-Dixie didn't offer delis until the 1970's, Southeast Florida nay have been the exception. Colonial/Big Star didn't really add delis until after merging with Grand Union.
Giant-MD had delis in Northern Virginia and Bruno's added delis to Bruno's bannered stores in Alabama, though they numbered only a handful as Food World and Consumers Warehouse were the primary banners. Harris-Teeter was early to delis in the Carolinas. Independents often held to full-service meat counters and offered Bologna, in-store-made sausage, tuna salad, chicken salad, ham salad, potato salad, cole slaw, and pimento cheese spread in the service case.
As Rich stated, Kroger was slow to adding delis, though some pre-superstore era Kroger's had a deli, often leased out. The Big 3 in the late 60's and early 70's-A&P, Kroger and Safeway were slow to add delis and bakeries. As shown in this site, A&P had a "superstore" prototype in 1969, but only opened a few such stores. Once Kroger developed the superstore , the format became commonplace in so much of the South and Midwest during the 70's, and Kroger sticks in most peoples head in the markets it dominates as the leader in the superstore format.
For much of the southeast, Kroger's rollout of the superstore format was often the first grocer with a deli-bakery and extended operating hours.
In the south, Publix operated Dutch bakeries in the 1960's and didn't really push delis until the 1970's. Food Fair/Pantry Pride and Grand Union had delis in South Florida and those Publix locations close to those were the early deli offerings. Winn-Dixie didn't offer delis until the 1970's, Southeast Florida nay have been the exception. Colonial/Big Star didn't really add delis until after merging with Grand Union.
Giant-MD had delis in Northern Virginia and Bruno's added delis to Bruno's bannered stores in Alabama, though they numbered only a handful as Food World and Consumers Warehouse were the primary banners. Harris-Teeter was early to delis in the Carolinas. Independents often held to full-service meat counters and offered Bologna, in-store-made sausage, tuna salad, chicken salad, ham salad, potato salad, cole slaw, and pimento cheese spread in the service case.
As Rich stated, Kroger was slow to adding delis, though some pre-superstore era Kroger's had a deli, often leased out. The Big 3 in the late 60's and early 70's-A&P, Kroger and Safeway were slow to add delis and bakeries. As shown in this site, A&P had a "superstore" prototype in 1969, but only opened a few such stores. Once Kroger developed the superstore , the format became commonplace in so much of the South and Midwest during the 70's, and Kroger sticks in most peoples head in the markets it dominates as the leader in the superstore format.
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Steve Landry
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The Deli/Seafood departments of Food Fair in Florida were modeled after successful counterparts in the northeast.
At the age of 15 (1968) I started working as a bagger at a 25,000 sqft store that had a deli/seafood service counter. That store was almost 20 years old and had not been remodeled. The "planogram" photographs I viewed of the department were of a deli/seafood department of a store in Philadelphia. I also read (at the time) a review of the changes through the years of the required presentations. That gave me the impression it was not a "new" department.
Additionally, a couple of years later, I was transferred to a 45,000 sqft Fredricks store that had a full service deli/seafood/bakery and pharmacy department. This store was over 20 years old. In retrospect, Fredricks had all these departments before even Food Fair purchased the chain.
I guess I am trying to point out that Fredricks and Food Fair were quite the innovators of their time and rarely get any credit for it :)
The big 3 were always slow to innovate and what was interesting about Food Fair was that it became so huge so quickly (top 4 or 5 at its peak). I suspect that one of the reasons was its drive for innovation.
Just some food for thought :)
At the age of 15 (1968) I started working as a bagger at a 25,000 sqft store that had a deli/seafood service counter. That store was almost 20 years old and had not been remodeled. The "planogram" photographs I viewed of the department were of a deli/seafood department of a store in Philadelphia. I also read (at the time) a review of the changes through the years of the required presentations. That gave me the impression it was not a "new" department.
Additionally, a couple of years later, I was transferred to a 45,000 sqft Fredricks store that had a full service deli/seafood/bakery and pharmacy department. This store was over 20 years old. In retrospect, Fredricks had all these departments before even Food Fair purchased the chain.
I guess I am trying to point out that Fredricks and Food Fair were quite the innovators of their time and rarely get any credit for it :)
The big 3 were always slow to innovate and what was interesting about Food Fair was that it became so huge so quickly (top 4 or 5 at its peak). I suspect that one of the reasons was its drive for innovation.
Just some food for thought :)
The Food Fair Empire
I don't recall for certain the first time I saw a grocery store deli in Richmond; my guess that it was in the early 1970's and was at our local Safeway and I recall that it was an immediate hit.
I do recall vividly the full-service delicatessens outside of grocery stores, which aren't that easy to find any more. The survivors are pretty much sandwich shops and you never see anyone buying just meat in them much these days.
It's interesting to note that the old delicatessens were both meat markets and restaurants and that the in-store grocery delis were basically just meat counters. Now some of the in-store delis perform much the same function as the old "delicatessen restaurant". The newer Ukrop's stores feature made-to-order sandwiches as well as just the ingredients.
I do recall vividly the full-service delicatessens outside of grocery stores, which aren't that easy to find any more. The survivors are pretty much sandwich shops and you never see anyone buying just meat in them much these days.
It's interesting to note that the old delicatessens were both meat markets and restaurants and that the in-store grocery delis were basically just meat counters. Now some of the in-store delis perform much the same function as the old "delicatessen restaurant". The newer Ukrop's stores feature made-to-order sandwiches as well as just the ingredients.
Re: "Safeway, A&P, & Kroger---They may have been the biggest overall, but they often were secondary players even in their main territories. People remember where they or their families shopped, which often were local or regional chains. Native Washingtonians will recall hometown Giant more than Safeway. Finast and later Stop & Shop, Star, Food Mart and others are far greater in the imaginations of New Englanders. Jewel is the touchstone for Chicago. Dillons (pre-Kroger) is what a Kansan will talk about. The list goes on....
In the era we're implicitly discussing, there were many more chains and even rather marginal operations could survive over a long period of time. A&P was a bit player in places like DC and it was a distant third to Jewel and National in Chicago. The bigger stores with service departments were one of the things that chaged this dynamic. The big local chains that were slow to adapt, like First National or Acme ultimately lost their indepndence. Outside of the South, there were very strong, innovative local or regional chains that pioneered service departments and other things we take for granted. Jewel, Schnucks, etc. Even laggard chains like National had service departments in the mid-60s because of the need to compete with chains like Jewel. Kroger's dominance in a number of markets owes a lot to eccentric (HG Hill in Nashville) or basically incompetent management of major competitors (the various Atlanta chains). A&P probably wouldn't be in Philly if Food Fair had survived. For whatever reason, fresh food operations in the Southeast seem weaker than even what you find in New England (which is probably the most distant region from major growing areas). It's difficult to find decent, ripe produce in Nashville or Atlanta.
In the era we're implicitly discussing, there were many more chains and even rather marginal operations could survive over a long period of time. A&P was a bit player in places like DC and it was a distant third to Jewel and National in Chicago. The bigger stores with service departments were one of the things that chaged this dynamic. The big local chains that were slow to adapt, like First National or Acme ultimately lost their indepndence. Outside of the South, there were very strong, innovative local or regional chains that pioneered service departments and other things we take for granted. Jewel, Schnucks, etc. Even laggard chains like National had service departments in the mid-60s because of the need to compete with chains like Jewel. Kroger's dominance in a number of markets owes a lot to eccentric (HG Hill in Nashville) or basically incompetent management of major competitors (the various Atlanta chains). A&P probably wouldn't be in Philly if Food Fair had survived. For whatever reason, fresh food operations in the Southeast seem weaker than even what you find in New England (which is probably the most distant region from major growing areas). It's difficult to find decent, ripe produce in Nashville or Atlanta.
I think this was mostly a Safeway format. They wanted to isolate the produce department and create a farmers market appearance. They used natural wood orchard bins and the format was very successful. At the time they said stores with this format had an immediate 20% produce sales increase upon conversion. They got away from it because the orchard bins attracted mice/rats and had to be replaced fairly often and went to cheap looking plastic imitation orchard bins. Now with the lifestyle stores they're returning to wood but with a more sophisticated finish.tkaye wrote:Now... how about those dark canvas awnings over produce departments? When I think of that era, I also think of those hideous things. What was the purpose of them -- would a dark department make it easier to pass off inferior product?
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Edric Floyd
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Having grown up in South Florida in the 1970's it was normal (to me) for any supermarket to have a deli counter unless it was a really small old store (like the Pic-N-Pay market my mother worked at in Pompano Beach around 1971 (1940's building)
Publix had the best offerings in their deli. From cold cuts and fine cheeses to made in store potato salad/Macaroni salad, special order party platters and by the late 1970's HOT foods were offered. And if you wanted to order a sandwich, you could order one ANY way you wanted. If the clerk needed to get a special type of bread, they simply picked a loaf off the shelf. You could even order a PB&J on white if you wanted.
Today, Publix deli offers their salad items pre-packaged. The only "service" deli items are sandwich meats and cheese. "hot foods" are offered but mostly limited to the Rotisserie Chicken. And most Publix locations offer SUBS (not sandwiches).
Publix was the first I remember to have a self-service SALAD BAR in the 1990's, but that also is gone. You can still order party platters from Publix and they are always a hit.
The Bakery was always separate from the deli with Publix. In fact there were many Publix stores prior to the late 1970's that had a separate "Danish Bakery" location next door or within the same shopping center. Most chains seem to combine the deli-bakery and have fewer offerings. I especially remember this with Albertsons in Florida and Piggly Wiggly and Kroger here in GA.
I also grew up with Winn-Dixie having a great deli dept with more of a Southern Flavor. They offered the same as Publix but their hot food offerings included more BBQ type items. And a fabulous Banana Pudding! And for the most part, WD attempts to offer the same today. THAT IS IF YOU CAN FIND THE DELI DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY OPEN! (sorry) as several remaining Winn Dixie locations I have shopped have "service" departments that "close" early in the evenings, several hours before the actual store closing. And when they are open, they are understaffed and rude at best. But the food is GOOD. WD did have a bakery. An in-store bakery is a rare find at todays Winn-Dixie.
Where I live, Kroger offers a "meals to go" option of packaged gormet meal items in their deli dept which they only offer in more affluent areas. (one of our two Krogers) Everything else is mostly overpriced packaged deli items. Kroger also offers fresh brewed ICE TEA in their deli departments. They brew unsweet, sweet and decaf to be sold by the half gallon. Here in the South, they sell lots of "sweet tea" at $1.99 per half gallon.
Where other deli departments are in decline, I must mention INGLES as being the BEST in the South. Well staffed, well stocked, LOTS of FRESH offerings, including hot meals, party platters, sandwiches or subs any way you want, hot breakfast and a salad/soup bar that includes fresh cut fruit on demand. And with most Ingle's locations in small towns here in Georgia, they are the place to get a great "home cooked" type of meal. They all have cafe's. And each store is adaptable to the tastes of the community. Theres even one store that bakes three types of cornbread. "regular" , "sweet" and "Mexican". They have a large Mexican community in that town.
Oh now I am hungry!
Publix had the best offerings in their deli. From cold cuts and fine cheeses to made in store potato salad/Macaroni salad, special order party platters and by the late 1970's HOT foods were offered. And if you wanted to order a sandwich, you could order one ANY way you wanted. If the clerk needed to get a special type of bread, they simply picked a loaf off the shelf. You could even order a PB&J on white if you wanted.
Today, Publix deli offers their salad items pre-packaged. The only "service" deli items are sandwich meats and cheese. "hot foods" are offered but mostly limited to the Rotisserie Chicken. And most Publix locations offer SUBS (not sandwiches).
Publix was the first I remember to have a self-service SALAD BAR in the 1990's, but that also is gone. You can still order party platters from Publix and they are always a hit.
The Bakery was always separate from the deli with Publix. In fact there were many Publix stores prior to the late 1970's that had a separate "Danish Bakery" location next door or within the same shopping center. Most chains seem to combine the deli-bakery and have fewer offerings. I especially remember this with Albertsons in Florida and Piggly Wiggly and Kroger here in GA.
I also grew up with Winn-Dixie having a great deli dept with more of a Southern Flavor. They offered the same as Publix but their hot food offerings included more BBQ type items. And a fabulous Banana Pudding! And for the most part, WD attempts to offer the same today. THAT IS IF YOU CAN FIND THE DELI DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY OPEN! (sorry) as several remaining Winn Dixie locations I have shopped have "service" departments that "close" early in the evenings, several hours before the actual store closing. And when they are open, they are understaffed and rude at best. But the food is GOOD. WD did have a bakery. An in-store bakery is a rare find at todays Winn-Dixie.
Where I live, Kroger offers a "meals to go" option of packaged gormet meal items in their deli dept which they only offer in more affluent areas. (one of our two Krogers) Everything else is mostly overpriced packaged deli items. Kroger also offers fresh brewed ICE TEA in their deli departments. They brew unsweet, sweet and decaf to be sold by the half gallon. Here in the South, they sell lots of "sweet tea" at $1.99 per half gallon.
Where other deli departments are in decline, I must mention INGLES as being the BEST in the South. Well staffed, well stocked, LOTS of FRESH offerings, including hot meals, party platters, sandwiches or subs any way you want, hot breakfast and a salad/soup bar that includes fresh cut fruit on demand. And with most Ingle's locations in small towns here in Georgia, they are the place to get a great "home cooked" type of meal. They all have cafe's. And each store is adaptable to the tastes of the community. Theres even one store that bakes three types of cornbread. "regular" , "sweet" and "Mexican". They have a large Mexican community in that town.
Oh now I am hungry!
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marshd1000
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It seems to me that one of the first stores I remember hearing about that had a salad bar in the Seattle are was Fred Meyer. But I never saw a total rollout of salad bars in Freddy's. Maybe Tkaye can correct me on this one, but I think I remember the Lakewood, WA Fred Meyer having one. I also think that Fred Meyer's salad bars were in the produce section. I believe I remember reading the Fred Meyer newsletter called, "The Fred Meyer Register", mentioning about some produce department salad bars in a few location. I was working for Fred Meyer at this time.
I also remember that when QFC started rolling our service deli's in the late 80's or early 90's, all of the deli departments had a great salad bar. They were quite extensive. Many different type of veggies, toppings, plus meats, eggs, two kinds of cheeses. There was also potato and macaroni salad. If I remember correctly, they had a heated area with taco meat plus taco shells, salsa, etc. There was even a soup bar as part of the salad bar area. Now it's only pre-made salads and the soup bar. But in some more affluent neighborhoods, they brought back a limited green salad bar with few other salads. Fred Meyer has done the same in some affluent neighborhoods.
I also remember that new Albertsons and Safeway store in Seattle had a salad bar. Albertsons I think had them before Safeway but both quit having salad bars about the same time.
One of the few stores that I know that still has a extensive salad bar in all it's store is Larry's Markets here in Seattle. But with new owners taking over and the Tukwila store probably closing, who knows what will happen to the salad bars. I also belive that the Haggen stores in Northwest Washington State still have extensive salad bars too.
I also remember that when QFC started rolling our service deli's in the late 80's or early 90's, all of the deli departments had a great salad bar. They were quite extensive. Many different type of veggies, toppings, plus meats, eggs, two kinds of cheeses. There was also potato and macaroni salad. If I remember correctly, they had a heated area with taco meat plus taco shells, salsa, etc. There was even a soup bar as part of the salad bar area. Now it's only pre-made salads and the soup bar. But in some more affluent neighborhoods, they brought back a limited green salad bar with few other salads. Fred Meyer has done the same in some affluent neighborhoods.
I also remember that new Albertsons and Safeway store in Seattle had a salad bar. Albertsons I think had them before Safeway but both quit having salad bars about the same time.
One of the few stores that I know that still has a extensive salad bar in all it's store is Larry's Markets here in Seattle. But with new owners taking over and the Tukwila store probably closing, who knows what will happen to the salad bars. I also belive that the Haggen stores in Northwest Washington State still have extensive salad bars too.
Safeway had salad bars in Richmond before they skedaddled, with hot foods and soup as well. A while back (in the late '80's or early '90's), there was an incident where one of the local Safeways refused to "refund" money to a couple of drug addicts for a roast they had shoplifted. They decided to exact revenge by dropping syringes into the soup kettles at a couple of Safeways, causing all of the gorcery chains to pull soup for a while. Both of these bozos are still in prison, I believe.
Ukrop's has large salad bars in all of their stores, as well as delis, plus they have "kitchen" items, like prepared salads and entrees, plus a daily "meal for two" that's prepackaged in a bag for quick pickup. Most, if not all, have pizza, panini sandwiches and fried and rotisserie chicken. The larger stores have a cafe section with a grill; the newest stores have lots and lots of choices of hot food and sandwiches made to order.
They supply their stores both with in store kitchens as well as a large central kitchen operation. Their chicken salad and crabcakes are very good, as is most all of their food.
I don't really ever go into the local Food Lions, but some had salad bars, at least at one time. I'm so used to the Ukrop's salad bar model that it seems strange to me to NOT see a salad bar in an otherwise nice store.
Ukrop's has large salad bars in all of their stores, as well as delis, plus they have "kitchen" items, like prepared salads and entrees, plus a daily "meal for two" that's prepackaged in a bag for quick pickup. Most, if not all, have pizza, panini sandwiches and fried and rotisserie chicken. The larger stores have a cafe section with a grill; the newest stores have lots and lots of choices of hot food and sandwiches made to order.
They supply their stores both with in store kitchens as well as a large central kitchen operation. Their chicken salad and crabcakes are very good, as is most all of their food.
I don't really ever go into the local Food Lions, but some had salad bars, at least at one time. I'm so used to the Ukrop's salad bar model that it seems strange to me to NOT see a salad bar in an otherwise nice store.